Ghonim: Tôi tha thứ hết cho họ
Tin từ New York: Sau 12 ngày được tha, nhà tranh đấu mạng Wael Ghonim đã hôn lên má những người lính. Những người này đã bịt mắt anh trong khi giam giữ và đôi khi còn đánh đập anh nữa.
"Tôi gỡ vải bịt mắt ra và nói "Hi", rồi hôn từng người lính", anh nhân viên quản lý cấp cao của hãng Google nói vậy trong một cuộc phỏng vấn trên đài CBS trong chương trình 60 phút, phát hình tôi Chủ nhật 2-13 vừa rồi.
"Làm như thế, tôi muốn gửi họ một thông điệp", anh Ghonim nói. Anh là người đã trở thành một người lãnh đạo những cuộc biểu tình ngoài đường phố làm sụp đổ sự cai trị của Tổng Thống Hosni Mubarak.
Người hùng 30 tuổi Ghonim nói những sự đánh đập anh không theo một thời khóa biểu nhất định.
"Những đánh đập đó là tùy theo từng người giam, thật ra từ những người lính, chứ không phải từ các sĩ quan", anh nói vậy.
"Và tôi tha thứ cho họ, tôi tha thứ họ vì họ luôn nghĩ rằng tôi đang làm hại đất nước." Anh nói, "họ cho tôi là tên phản bội, tôi làm đất nước bất ổn định."
"Vậy khi anh nào đánh tôi, ảnh làm vậy không phải vì họ là người xấu. Ảnh nghĩ rằng ảnh là người tốt."
Ghonim là người đã lập trang "Chúng ta đều là Khaled Said", trang mạng này được ghi công là đã giúp điều vận những người biểu tình. Anh nói rằng những cuộc biểu tình dẫn đến sự phế truất Mubarak sẽ không xảy ra nếu không có các liên mạng xã hội. (online social network)
"Nếu không có các liên mạng xã hội thì sẽ không có gì câm ngòi hết, bởi vì mọi diễn tiến trước khi cuộc cách mạng bắt đầu là điều quan trọng nhất."
"Nếu không có Facebook, không có Twitter, không có Google, không có YouTube, sự sụp đổ của TT Mubarak này sẽ không thể diễn ra," Ghonim nói vậy.
"Một trong các lỗi lầm chiến lược của chế độ độc tài là chặn Facebook," anh tiếp lời.
"Vì sao? Bởi vì họ đã như thú nhận với bốn triệu dân mạng là họ sợ cuộc cách mạng này chết khiếp - với việc chặn Facebook."
"Họ đã ép những người chỉ muốn đọc tin tức từ Facebook, họ ép những người này xuống đường để hòa vào cuộc cách mạng!"
Ghonim nói anh đã từng bị đe dọa thủ tiêu cũng như bị gán tội là gián điệp hay phản bội đất nước.
"Nhưng tôi nghĩ, trong vài ngày tới đây, khi những hồ sơ mật của chế độ cũ sẽ được phơi bày cho mọi người đọc, cũng như biết ai đã biển thủ tiền bạc của đất nước, mọi việc sẽ khá hơn lên."
Khi chương trình "60 Phút" hỏi anh Ghonim cảm tưởng là những người lãnh đạo độc tài nghĩ sao sau những cuộc biểu tình ở Ai Cập.
Anh nghĩ "Họ chắc sẽ rất hãi sợ, chắc chắn sẽ rất hãi sợ".
Tin từ: APF.
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Ghonim: I forgive them all
February 14 2011 at 03:49am
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New York - Released after 12 days in custody, Egyptian cyber activist Wael Ghonim kissed the soldiers who had kept him blindfolded and given him the occasional beating.
“I removed my blindfold and I said ‘Hi’, and kissed every one of them,” the Google marketing executive for the Middle East said in an interview with CBS's 60 Minutes aired on Sunday. “All of the soldiers.”
“And, you know, it was good,” said Ghonim, who emerged as a leader of the street protests which brought down President Hosni Mubarak. “I was sending them a message.”
The 30-year-old Ghonim said the beatings were “not systematic”.
“It was individual-based, like, and it was not from the officers,” he said. “It was actually from the soldiers.
“And I forgive them, I have to say. I forgive them, because one thing is that they were convinced that I was harming the country,” he said. “I'm sort of like a traitor, I'm destabilising the country.
“So when he hits me, he doesn't hit me because... he's a bad guy. He's hitting me because he thinks he's a good guy,” he said.
Ghonim, who started a Facebook page, “We Are All Khaled Said”, that has been credited with helping mobilise the demonstrators, said the protests which led to Mubarak's ousting would not have happened without online social networks.
“If there was no social networks it would have never been sparked,” he said. “Because the whole thing before the revolution was the most critical thing.
“Without Facebook, without Twitter, without Google, without YouTube, this would have never happened,” Ghonim said.
“One of the strategic mistakes of this regime was blocking Facebook,” he continued.
“Why? Because they have told four million people that they are scared like hell from the revolution - by blocking Facebook.
“They forced everyone who's just, you know, waiting to read the news on Facebook, they forced them to go to the street to be part of this,” he said.
Ghonim said he had received death threats and been accused of being a spy and a traitor.
“But I think, in the next few days, when all the black files of the regime are going to be out for everyone to read and see, and, you know, we know about the money that was stolen from this country things are going to get better,” he said.
Ghonim was asked by 60 Minutes what other authoritarian leaders should be thinking after the protests in Egypt.
“He should freak out. He seriously should freak out,” he said. - AFP
***
February 13, 2011
Wael Ghonim and Egypt's New Age Revolution
(CBSNews)
This Sunday night, for the first time in more than two weeks, traffic is flowing through Cairo's Tahrir Square. In Egypt, businesses are open, university classes are back in session and a new military government rules with popular support and a promise of coming democracy.
Egypt is an ancient civilization with a youthful population - nearly two-thirds of them are 30 years old or under. Many of them are educated but unemployed and angry.
Their 18-day revolution began not with terrorism and tanks, but with Twitter and texts and satellite TV broadcasts.
This week an aging autocrat who ruled as a modern pharaoh fell victim to those weapons of the young - out-organized and outmaneuvered by social media, by kids with keyboards.
In Cairo, CBS News correspondent Harry Smith had a chance to talk with the man who emerged as the symbol of the leaderless rebellion, Google executive Wael Ghonim.
Ghonim was jailed for his Internet organizing; when he gave a live interview on satellite TV following his release, he galvanized the movement. Though he was at the center of the "new age revolution," he has no ambition for leadership, nor any way of knowing what comes next.
Complete Coverage: Anger in the Arab World
Wael Ghonim: The regime was extremely stupid. They are the ones who basically ended themselves. They kept oppressing and oppressing and oppressing and oppressing. Right after I came out of jail, I wrote a status message that we are gonna (win), because we don't understand politics, because we don't understand their nasty games. We're gonna win because our tears comes from our hearts. We're gonna win because we have a dream. We're gonna win because we're convinced that if anyone stands up in front of our dream, we're ready to die defending it.
Harry Smith: Two and a half weeks ago, when this started, did you anticipate this outcome?
Ghonim: When I went on the streets on Tuesday, on the 25th, I was like, 'Whoa, it's gonna happen.' Because the only barrier to people uprising and revolution is the psychological barrier of fear. All these regimes rely on fear. They want everyone to be scared. If you manage to break the psychological barrier, you're gonna definitely be able to do the revolution.
That wall of fear fell in the last few weeks, as hundreds of thousands of Egyptians defied their government and demanded change. Helping to lead the charge was 30-year-old Ghonim, Google's regional marketing manager for the Middle East. In his spare time, he created a Facebook page, posting information about the brutality of Egyptian police.
He was especially angered by the killing of a 28-year-old Internet activist, who was beaten to death after trying to expose police corruption.
Smith: How important is his story in what happened here in the last three weeks?
Ghonim: By the way, his name is Khalid Sayid, name translated in English into 'eternal happiness.' His photo, after being killed by those police officers made all of us cry. Made all of us, you know, because he's coming from middle class. I personally connected to him. I thought, 'This could be my brother.' You know? And I know the police in Egypt. You know, they used to act like they controlled the world. You know, they'd beat you up. You are someone basically who have no rights. So when he died I personally got deeply hurt. I decided to start fighting this regime.
(CBSNews) The Facebook page was called "We are all Khalid Sayid." Soon hundreds, then thousands of others began sharing photos and video of abuse and mistreatment.
Within months, the number of followers on Facebook grew to half a million, and when he and other organizers posted the dates and locations of protests, people started showing up and posting Internet videos. Many of the organizers never met in person. Their primary interaction was online.
Smith: If there's no social network, does this revolution happen?
Ghonim: If there was no social networks, it would have never been sparked. Because the whole thing before the revolution was the most critical thing. Without Facebook, without Twitter, without Google, without YouTube, this would have never happened
Smith: If you want to have a free country, if you want democracy, then the Internet is great, and all this information can be shared. But isn't just the opposite then true? If I want to continue to suppress people, the last thing I'm gonna give them is access to the Internet.
Ghonim: Block the whole Internet, you're gonna really frustrate people. One of the strategic mistakes of this regime was blocking Facebook. One of the reasons why they are no longer in power now is that they blocked Facebook. Why? Because they have told four million people that they are scared like hell from the revolution by blocking Facebook. They forced everyone who's just, you know, waiting to read the news on Facebook, they forced them to go to the street to be part of this. So really, like, if I want to thank one, thank anyone for all of this, I would thank our stupid regime.
Three days after the protests began in Tahrir Square, Ghonim disappeared. His friends and family feared he'd been kidnapped or even killed. Egyptian authorities had arrested him for 12 days. He was blindfolded, handcuffed and constantly interrogated.
Smith: Did they hit you?
Ghonim: Yeah, but it was not systematic. Like, it was individual based, and it was not from the officers. It was actually from the soldiers. And I forgive them, I have to say. I forgive them, because one thing is that they were convinced that I was harming the country. These are simple people, not educated. I cannot carry a conversation with them. So, you know, for him, I'm sort of like a traitor. I'm de-stabilizing the country. So when he hits me, he doesn't hit me because, you know, he's a bad guy. He's hitting me because he thinks he's a good guy. I'll tell you a funny story: At the end of the last day, you know, I removed my...blindfold. And I said, 'Hi,' and kissed every one of them. All of the soldiers. And, you know, it was good. I was sending them a message.
Smith: Why do you think they let you go?
Ghonim: Pressure. Ask Obama. Probably. There were a lot of factors to it. One is Google. Google did a lot of work to get me out. They did a lot, massive PR campaign.
After Ghonim was released, he appeared on a popular Egyptian television program, talking about those who had been killed in the protests. The next day, the crowds in Tahrir Square grew even larger. Their demands would not be denied. And Friday, 18 days after the protest started, Mubarak resigned.
Smith: President Obama came out several times during the revolution, had things to say. Did it help? Did it hurt?
Ghonim: You know, it was good that he supports the revolution. That's a good stand. But we don't really need him. And I don't think that....I wrote a tweet. I wrote, 'Dear Western governments. You have been supporting the regime that was oppressing us for 30 years. Please don't get involved now. We don't need you.'
(CBSNews) Ghonim told us he has no interest in politics and he wants to go back to work at Google. After our interview, he talked about the future with family and friends. But he realizes his future has fundamentally changed.
Smith: Have you had death threats?
Ghonim: Yeah. I get those all the time. I'm getting a lot of hate messages, a lot of people are talking bad about me, and, you know, still accusing me of being a spy and a traitor. And all that funny stuff. But I think, in the next few days, when all the black files of the regime are gonna be out for everyone to read and see, AND we know about the money that was stolen from this country. Things are gonna get better.
Smith: Do you think Mubarak will be brought to trial?
Ghonim: At the moment, I don't care. Revenge is not the thing I want. For me, what I care about right now, I want all the money of the Egyptian people to come back. There are billions and billions of dollars that were stolen out of this country. You cannot imagine the amount of corruption that was here. You know, with all these people in power, with all this conflict of interest. And, you know, it's time for them to pay the price. And it's, as I said, revenge is not my goal, personally. You know, others would have that as their goal. And I don't blame them for that. But for me, what is more important, we want the money back. Because this money belongs to the Egyptians, and they deserve it. The people who were eating from the trash, that was their money.
Smith: People who watch this say, 'Okay, well, this miracle happened in Egypt. But it won't be like that a month or a year or five years from now. Life isn't like that.' Do you believe the ideals that were so well-displayed over the last two and a half weeks are the pavement or the foundation for the country?
Ghonim: Yeah, that's actually our responsibility. We're now meeting a lot. Because...this momentum, whatever that just happened right now, needs to be capitalized on now.
Smith: Did the Mubarak regime underestimate, or do you even think it understood, the power of the social network?
Ghonim: They don't understand the social networking part. But they underestimate the power of the people. And, you know, at the end of the day, I want to say my final word is, 'Thanks, thanks, thanks to the stupid regime. You have done us the best thing ever. You have woke up 80 million Egyptians.'
Smith: So if you're an autocrat, or if you're a dictator, and you watch what happened in Egypt over the last several weeks, what lesson do you think...?
Ghonim: He should freak out. He seriously should freak out
